Jo Ann Fawcett on The Mompreneur Model with Dori DeCarlo on WoMRadio

0:00 She is sure, she is sure, she is strong, she is true, is true, she is brave, she is she, She is you, is you? Is you? She is sure, she is true, she is strong, she is strong, she. Is true, is true, she is brave, is bray, she is she is you. Hello, everyone, welcome to today's Word of Mom Radio. Here on the Word of Mom Media Network. I'm your host, Dori Di Carlo, and you know we are here a week after week, show after show breaking those myths that mompreneurs and business women, especially those of us building our businesses from home, that we're just dabbling in between bake sales and getting our nails done. We're not. We are smart, we are savvy, and we are sharing the wisdom of women in business and in life. And I'm looking forward to bringing today's guest into our show. Joanne Fawcett lives Inland, Oregon and has a bookkeeping business. Joanne changed her life after seven rough marriages that included abuse, divorce, death, and being a prison wife. Her first book, Midlife Magic, is about her first six marriages, lessons learned, and her side passions.

1:22 Her second book, The Prince Was Wrong, leaving the narcissist behind, is about husband number seven and the healing journey that enabled her to survive the rollercoaster of narcissistic abuse and thrive. While we're not going to really be talking about her books today because we will bring joe Anne back to be on the author's alley, we are going to talk about those toxic relationships to remind you that you are not alone and that there is support out there where you can not only survive, but thrive. And as women, we need to know this. We need to know or not alone. So with all that being said, joe Anne, welcome to Ward of Mom Radio.

2:08 Thank you for having me. It is my pleasure. So I would love for you to take us on your journey to where you are right now because seven marriages, okay, kind of in. A nutshell or not, And of course my cat has now decided to bother me. I grew up in suburban you know, suburban middle class southern California and northern California in the fifties and sixties. So white picket fence, you watch leave it to beaver. Everybody has a happy little family, so you assume you know, and the goal is to get married, have a bunch of kids, and live happily ever after. And I thought that's what was happening in my family. You know, my parents seemed happy until they didn't.

2:57 But then you know, they got it together and day together till my dad died. And then when I was twelve, I joined the Mormon Church. So again, the whole thing is, you get married, you have babies, you live happily ever after. And nobody really trained me for They didn't train me. It's like, Okay, here's what you need to talk about and what you need to know before you get married. You don't just pick the guy and everything's going to work out. So number one, I picked the wrong guys seven times, and thankfully I only had a baby with one. But there, it's like, you didn't I thought, well, if I marry Mormons and I'm going to be we're going to be on the same page. We're going to have all the same ideas about parenting and how families should be.

3:47 But I didn't know all the hard stuff you really need to know to get to know each other really well and to make sure you're a good fit and to make sure that the marriage is going to work out. So then all of a sudden, well, this one doesn't love me, so why did you get married? This one has substance abuse problems, this one is hitting us. You know, a couple of them did that. This one ruined me financially, and this one was just boring. And thought everything was my fault, so bad for me. I selected the wrong husbands. Yes, and then number seven came along and I thought, oh, he seems so Yes, yes, he. Is in prison. He was in prison when we got married, and he's still there after her divorce. You know, he's never going to leave there. But I just thought he seemed so different and charming and educated and really different, and he wasn't into hitting women and things like that. So I just thought, Okay, I'll give it another try. And then that we were together twenty five years, married for like twenty and he's the one that turned.

4:49 Out to be the narcissist. So and again I felt like the frog and the pot of boiling water because it didn't dawn on me for twenty years that oh, this is what's going on on. You know, everything's perfect and we talk all the time, but never about certain things. But everything was perfect because I was going along with his flow and his agenda. And as long as I didn't make waves and just kind of went along with our life, everything was great until I decided to rock the boat a bit. You know, SI let me. But I'm here today happy as I can be because I rocked the boat, and you know, that was the best thing I could do.

5:34 You know, it's amazing. I actually one of my posts today, I actually just posted how about life begins outside your comfort zone? When that zone is just a dot, It is rocking the boat, It is deciding that wait a minute, there is something else going on here. And I wasn't even pretty to it. And then you realize and you open up your eyes, and it's an amazing thing to have that eye opening because it is so long in the making, and however long it takes to have that aha moment where you finally feel within yourself strong enough to recognize what's going on and step outside of it.

6:25 Good for you. How did you step away, jo Anne? It was It was a bit of a process. And I will say. The fall of twenty nineteen, before the big COVID shutdown, I was in my sixties and I started thinking, Hey, you know, I'd really like to retire in the next you know, five or ten years, because up to that point, I was living in his family house that he grew up in northern California, but I was paying for everything. He's in prison, supposedly has no money. Well actually he said he kept telling me he had money, but I never I only saw five hundred dollars of it to help fix one of the roofholes. But anyway, se I thought, well, okay, I'm getting older, We're in our sixties. I want to retire.

7:12 How's that going to happen because you know, you're not sharing any money and I'm paying for everything in this expensive neighborhood and we have to have a plan. And oh, okay, well we'll all start thinking of a plan. Well the plan never materialized, but right before the COVID shutdown, so my mind started turning. It's like I'm, you know, freaking out because I want to retire before I'm dead. And you know, it's like it was. It was a logical, you know, desire, and you know, at seventy I'm still working full time, but I'm trying to change that. But anyway, it's like, right before COVID shut down, I took a psychic development class because I do have intuitive gifts, like we all do, but I'm wanted to keep developing them.

8:00 And our closing exercise was, We're going to cut the cord with something that no longer serves you. I thought, okay, well, I'm not thinking of divorce at this point, but I'm thinking something has to change with this relationship. And so I'm cutting the energetic cord with the relationship as it is, not knowing that you know, as it is, just needed to go away completely eventually. And and so then COVID happened and we couldn't see each other and there was no visiting for a year. And so I'm sitting in this big house in California listening to the oak trees. I've creaking and bowing and carrying the fall over unto the house today and doing all these things that I was still doing. But now I'm very isolated because it's COVID and we, you know, don't talk to each other.

8:49 So I decided to move to Portland or again to be near my daughter so I could at least be around people. You know. We called it our quarantine bubble. All we did was, you know, saw it well. We talked and touched if within the family. And so then the first it's like I wrote to him, but we didn't really talk. We'd't have a chance to really talk about my move. And then I moved three months earlier than I had planned. So when I moved and he found. Out, he exploded. And it's like, oh, this is not a good look. There's you know, because all of a sudden he's in this commando military mode, which he's used to being, and it's like he assumed I was. He assumed all the wrong things. He assumed I was leaving him. He you know, get all your stuff out of the house, and you know, it's like so it's like this roller coaster ride for the next three years until we got divorced. It's like, Okay, I wasn't trying to leave you, but he still wanted every he wanted to be in control of everything, and okay.

9:47 Then we're trying to get get it on back on an even keel, and then I start saying, well, this is what I think and this is what I feel, and this is what I'm not getting from this relationship. And it's like, well, it's like everybody thinks my answers are right, and it's like well, I don't, but everybody likes my solutions, and I go, I don't so much. And I'm thinking, well, you know, like he couldn't. He couldn't even tell me ever why he liked me or why we really got married. It's like, men don't do that. They're they're in love. That should be enough. You know, there you stay, we stayed together. It's like, well I need to hear that.

10:29 It's like, why you like this? So that was one of us. It's like, men don't say that, and I'm going, sure they do. We should be able to tell our partners why we like them, even if it's just I love your smile, you know. And it's like, you know, that just got me. And then over the years, as we're trying to negotiate this, it's like, well a good wife should do this and this, and this's like, oh, we are not in the fifties any longer, dude. I want an equal partnership. And it's like a good wife should be happy that her husband has her living in this nice house. I go, this nice house is over one hundred years old, and she's paying for all of it.

11:10 And there are no other prison wives that live in this County in Marin unless they're in the low income, low rent district, and that's not where your house is. So it's like, don't tell me. A good wife should pre appreciative of this. Then the good husband should be helping take care of his house. So we were having all this back and forth crap, and I wrote my first book in the early days of COVID, and I would say, well, why didn't she support it more? Well, it didn't. It wasn't good timing for me. It made me look like a loser like everybody else. And then you weren't working on my projects, and it doesn't help my parole chance. There was no support about my personal creative projects or whatever it had to be. You know, you just do your work. You come see me, help me with my projects. And at one time he because I I went back into self employment, like in two thousand and seven, and it's like, you built your business in my house because I'd had a home office, but I also went around to the clients. It's like, and you turned your back on my needs. It's like, well, let's see my business, which has grown, you know, exponentially over the years, has been supporting you. So like, how is that turning my back.

12:26 On your knees? Because I was still visiting you, and I was still I didn't have to pay for all of his stuff, but it's like, you know, I was still visiting, and it gets you know, every week, it gets expensive when you're driving. And I lived close enough for several years to just go drive there. I didn't have to stay overnight, but drive there, pay for food while you're in the visiting room, that kind of stuff. So it's just his whole attitude. A narcissist. Whether they're your colleague, your partner, your your friend, your part doesn't matter. The person could be anybody in your life that's a narcissist. But it's all about them, and they're always right, and they really try to dig at you constantly to make you feel wrong and crazy and you have nothing good or right to say that. That was kind of how it went for three years, and we finally decided and this isn't working, No, it's not. And I got a divorce, which was pretty easy to do an Oregon. Oh and I've written the second book all about him, which you know, I don't know that he'll ever see. And I don't really care because he's not getting a free copy of this one.

13:42 But I'm sure the guards have told him that I've written another book, and other people have probably told. Him I've written another book. And his nickname is the Prince and the guy on the cover looks a lot like him when he was younger, and I had my graphic artists. It's like, if you could make the guy look like this, that would be great, you know. So you know, I've learned self care along the way, and I've learned boundaries along the way, and I've learned to say no. And he and I haven't talked for almost two years, so you know, we don't have anything to say to each other. And if we did, we talked through the trustee for his trust, so you know. And and finally, the one, the one niggly piece is he didn't want me to sell his house. Well now his house is being sold anyway, so you know, there might be justice and final closure because his trust owes me a lot of money and it's part of the escrow when it sells, so.

14:39 You know, I might finally get my final closure. So we'll see. But it is a journey, and I you know, I do I like what you said about giving people hope because whatever kind of narcissistic relationship you're in, you're not alone. And there's a bunch of us out here who can hold each other up and give each other support. And I'm grateful that I have employable skills. You know, I could work in the I could be somebody's employee. I'd show self employment because that model works for me and I've made it very successful. I'm now really ready to retire, and you know, at least semi retire. But am I as prepared for retirement as I wanted to be?

15:20 No? Thanks to him, but you know again, but I'm okay. On that note, We're going to take a quick break, really think about what Joanna is talking about here. We're going to say thank you to our sponsors, and we'll be back here in just a moment. On Word of Mom Radio. She is brave, she is bold, she is you, and we want to tell your story. Are you ready to share your journey with us on Word of Mom Radio? Go to wordofmomradio dot com and register as a guest. We want to tell your story because when you win, we all win. In two thousand and seve seventeen, Unsilenced Voices was formed to help survivors of domestic abuse and gender based violence worldwide.

16:09 The organization currently serves sier Leone, Rwanda, Ghana, and the USA. In twenty twenty two, Unsilenced Voices gifted over thirty three thousand dollars to survivors in the USA and in sier Leone, there are over twenty six young girls who have been rescued from sex trafficking and domestic abuse and now going through vocational training school in order to better their lives. We need your help. Donations are critical in order for us to continue our work. We also need volunteers to help with research and development. Please visit Unsilenced Voices dot org for more information.

16:53 And we're back here on Word of Mom Radio. We are talking with joe An Fawcett really about those narcissistic, toxic relationships and how we get in them and how we get out of them. So again, for all of the women that are listening, what are those red flags when you're in that relationship that you need to be aware of that you need to realize, wait a minute, this is not a good thing. Is this is a forecast of what is going to be going on down the road. What do we look for Joanne or looks out?

17:36 I have a lovely flyer. But again it's you know, are they gaslighting you? Are they bullying you? Are they making you feel like everything is your fault? They can do no wrong? Are they isolating you? And I know some of these red flags apply to other types of abuse as well, but you know, are they isolating you? Are they telling your friends and family and their friends and family how bad you are? I never met any of his children, but in his words, you know, they just hated me. There were times where they were getting close to liking me, but oh, you know, then I would do something and now my family hates you even more.

18:17 And it's like, you know, they've never even met me, So it would be nice to let them choose how they feel about. Me by meeting me. But some narcissists can be I think, physically abusive. He was not, except because you know, he was raised that you don't hit a woman, thankfully, But there were times a couple of times in the visiting room where I and even before I knew narcissism, it was like we was kind of having an argument without screaming because you don't get loud in the visiting room, and it's like, and he doesn't like to be embarrassed. And I don't know if that's a narcissis trader. It was just him being I'm mister wonderful trait. But he did not like to be embarrassed. So you know, he would get this really stern tone of voice, like you're sitting in front of your principal or your pastor, and you know, just dig at me like this really stern voice like it's like and how I felt two inches tall if that.

19:24 And he would just put his arm on my shoulder or my leg, like, don't get up because I wanted to go to the bathroom to cry. It's I do not leave the table because you will not embarrass me. Some narcissists can be financially irresponsible. And this is. The second guy I've been with who's basically caused me great financial stress. And I'm in major debt because of what I ended up paying for. And you know, in his mind, well, you spend all my inheritance. I go, I've spent it on what you told me to spend it on. You know, you wanted me to spend you know, you wanted me to buy these things for the house that never got used. You wanted me to remodel this, you wanted me to buy this. I bought you a car ago You picked out a mercey no a BMW that you thought I needed, which was a fun little car.

20:18 But it's like I didn't need a sports car. It's like, so you told me to buy that. Now I'm spending your inheritance. So it's like he just could never take responsibility for any of his wacky decisions or ideas. And because he came across so charming, and that's the other thing. They're very charming, and you just get sucked into this web of charm. And you know, everybody that knows us or knew us at the prison just saw this happy couple because we never gave off any other vibe than happily married, happy couple. You know, be like us. You could be happily married in prison, and there are many people who are happily married, even though this house is in prison. But we never gave off any vibe that anything ever was going wrong, and because that would have embarrassed him, and you know, in his eyes that wasn't true. But but then you know, it's like I would, and they're they're kind of two faced, I would think, because my best friend now, who was a friend of his in prison and he's been out for several years now, it's like, well, did did so and so, you know, talk bad about me when he left the visit room. Yeah, it's like, well, that fob because you know, if we're having such a great visit, but then you leave the visiting room and go back to where the men are and now you're talking smack about me, It's like, hello, that reminds me of that guy that we knew, who's you know, a drug addict here, but he has his

21:48 wife all sucked into how wonderful he is. It's like, but he goes back and talks about her like it's like, so my own husband was doing that, and it's like, well that makes me feel great. Yea. So those yeah, those again, those are my main red flegs. So how does a woman stand up for herself, get out of this and then heal from that toxic relationship? If you can afford it, get a therapist is the best thing. One of the best things I did, because I have a very supportive my daughter and my older sister were my two rocks, you know, and very supportive, but they're you know, they could only tell me, it's like, well get out of there and get out of there, and we love you, Da da da da, you know, but they couldn't do the clinical thing. I found a therapist in my neighborhood who specializes in narcissistic abuse survivors.

22:42 So she she's been wonderful and I still talk to her because I'm still you know, things are still happening. And and years ago when I couldn't afford a you know, fully licensed therapist, there are interns who are becoming licensed. I don't know if they call them interns, but you know, they're almost therapists. They're becoming license, but they have to do certain hours, so their rates are lower. So if you could find a clinic that's using maybe those kind of people who still need the hours and we're still really well qualified to talk to you, that's a way to afford it. So I would say, find a therapist, do some self care, and it doesn't have to be expensive self care. I get a massage every month. I also take daily walks unless it's freezing and icy here, but I walk in the rain. I'll walk in the snow if it's not icy. And I'm going to break a hip. But my neighborhood is so wonderful because I'm near a foresty park. It's called Forest Park. I'm into this beautiful neighborhood, so i can get lots of walking.

23:43 There are some hills, so if I want to get my cardio up. But then I also meditate that way, and I'm talking to the trees and the birds and all the animals, and you know, thoughts just come to me. And it's just the other day, I forget where I was. I went somewhere. I came back and I was really tired to gay Okay, I really want to nap, but I haven't taken my walk yet. Okay, get out of the house, get on your feet, go take that walk. Huh. I don't want to. I don't want It's like I'm this like two year old. I'm going I don't want to, but get out there. It's like I made myself get up there. It's like, oh, yeah, this is good. This is why I do this. And so it was just it was wonderful. And and again I'm a leo, so I don't have trouble talking.

24:26 But I didn't. I wasn't able to let that leo out when I was married to this guy. I just I felt suppressed and I didn't know that I was being suppressed. But now that I'm not, it's like, oh, I have this voice, I'm going to use it, and you give yourself permission to do that, and you know, find support groups. It's like, if people want to talk to me, I'm happy to talk to them, but you know, find find ways to support yourself. And I journal. I journal pretty much every day, and I don't think I told you. It's like I've created a. Healing journal with writing prompts to help people, you know, if that's something that will help them, because everybody uses different ways to help them. Part of my healing path has been to write and journal and write books. And I'm working on another book. But it's just fine, find what brings you joy, even if it's sitting there knitting for fifteen minutes.

25:26 You know. I've had to train myself to like not work all the time. It's like, and my family thinks it's like I took almost all of Saturday off. I think I only did client work for half an hour and my family, my sister's saying, yay. It's like, you know, because I'm I was such a workaholic and I've needed to to have, you know, the means to support myself. But I'm seventy now my social security is kicking in so I can start scaling back and it's like I could practice retirement. So it's like, find the little things that give you joy. I don't have a big social life, but I'm you know, okay, I took myself to a pub the other day just to read. Do the little things that will give you joy, and exercise is good. You know, I'm trying to you know, I'm trying to improve my health. I don't have major health issues, but we can. You know, there's always something we can do. Because I'm not an athlete, and you know, I don't do sports and I don't go to the gym, but I get out and walk and I.

26:32 You know, that's when I meditate. So I do the things that bring me joy, and that's helped a lot. On that note, It's a great way to kind of wrap up this conversation because you know what, doing the things in life that bring you joy, it sounds so simple, and yet so many people forget to do those little things that bring you joy. So as we're wrapping up, Joanne, what would you like to leave our listeners with and how may they reach out to you? Okay, and there's my cat. It's like I like to tell people, you know, you're not alone and you can change your life for the better at any age, no matter what's happening, And even if you can't leave that person, you can find ways to survive.

27:23 You know, even if you have to stay in the relationship. I think, because again, you know, maybe it's at the workplace. The narcissist is not always. Your romantic partner, and even if it is, you might not be able to leave that person. But know that you're not alone. Know that there's people out here who can help you and support you, and just you know, even if it's just a new friend who can give you a virtual hug, you know we're here for you. I'm here for you, and you can be happy. That's the point. You can be happy even if you're in a miserable situation. So my website is just my name Joanne without an e j O A N. N. Fawcett faw C E T T dot com, so you can find me there. You can email me through their My information about my books is there, so I'm rachable and I'm on LinkedIn and Instagram, so.

28:15 All of Joanne's links are going to be live on Word of Mom Radio, including a link to her books. I really encourage you reach out, but more importantly, I really encourage you to step back there. You are worth so much, and part of that narcissistic relationship is making you under value yourself, making you think you can't get along without this person, making you think that you have no power and they only Oh, the only power you have is what they give you. Please know that you are strong enough, you are brave enough, and you are not alone. Women are out there. We've done it, we've broken out of these relationships. We've moved on with our lives, and we're there. You have sister friends out there that will support you and love you and encourage you every step of the way. So reach out, reach out. Joanne.

29:27 Thank you so much for coming and sharing your journey with us. I really do encourage you, whether you want to come back with the books you've already written, or if you want to come back with the new one you're writing now. Once that is done, come back. Continue to share your journey because it's an important one and it's one that women need to hear a lot. So again, thank you so much, really very much, and for all of you tuning in, thank you so much for being here. We're going to close out with our fabulous theme song from Smith's Sisters and the Sunday Drivers. So till next time. This is Dory di Carlo saying, go out and create a marvelous you. Bye for now.

30:13 She is sure, she is sure, she is strong, she is strong, she is true, is true. She is braz Bra. She is bold. She she is you. She is you. She is you. She she is sure, she is sure, she is strong, is strong, she is true, is true. She is brave, she is bold, she is she is you. Is you? She is you, She is you. Sure of herself Yes, she takes care of his Powerful and strong. Yes, she knows who she. Is, has integrity, woman, strong and true. You know her by name. See this woman is you. She is sure, she is she is strong, he is strong, she is true, is true, she is braiz Bra. She is bold, she is you, is you, she is she is sure, she is strong, is strong, she is true, is true, she is brave, she is she, she is you, she is she is U.

31:16 Adds value and hope. Has proved to be brave. See it's never too late, never time to behave Reaching for dreams doesn't matter. The age believes in herself, unleash from her cage. She is sure, she is she is strong, is strong, she is true, true, she is brave, she is she is you. She is she. She is sure, she is strong, she is strong, she is true, is true, she is brave, is brave, she is she is you.